Warburton's 'philosophy'

[Lewdbear72 17]

Think it can still work. But say 3-4 seasons down the line and we finish behind scum - are people still going to be so patient?

[Max1872 170]

9 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

I don't think there's anything wrong with Warburton's philosophy per se. The problem is that Celtic are doing the exact same thing. Rodgers plays a 4-3-3, passing, pressing style. Celtic have the financial clout to buy better players that in turn make them play the system better than we can. It's naive to think we can stand tow to toe with them and win and Warburton's guilty of that. What we need is an approach that can give us the upper hand on a budget. There's lessons to be learned from MON and his physically and direct side that battered many better footballing teams.

Nonsense. Our poor performances have nothing to do with them.

[Max1872 170]

1 minute ago, Lewdbear72 said:

Think it can still work. But say 3-4 seasons down the line and we finish behind scum - are people still going to be so patient?

He won't be here at the beginning of next seasons never mind 4 more seasons of this shite.

[Thermopylae 3,061]

Walter must be pulling his hair out at what a low priority getting the defence right seems to have these days ... surely that's the bedrock that all successful teams are built on

[delamonty 642]

Two issues at the moment.

1) The adherence to plan 'a' that does not work.

2) Pissing away money on older players Barton, Niko, Hill.

#1 can be fixed if he changes -- but that seems a long shot to me. Posters on here are probably right. His system is fine IF he has the players to execute. And as others stated... we don't so he HAS to change. But he can't :-(

[Swagger 185]

2 hours ago, Max1872 said:

I see a lot of people who are defending Warburton talking about his 'philosophy' and for it to work we need to get behind him and support him because it's part of a long term project and it'll be good for us in the long run, could someone please tell me what his 'philosophy' is? Cos I'm really struggling to see it...

It's not like we are playing well every week, the brand of football we play is atrocious. It's painful to watch. It's a myth that we play an open expansive game. We don't. Keeping the ball on the deck under all circumstances isn't a philosophy, it's naive in the extreme and is the main reason we're a poor team.

So could someone please tell me what I'm supposed to be buying into?

For his philosophy to work he will need a better standard of player. Playing it out from the keeper to defenders and building from the back is great for a team that has players that are comfortable on the ball - unfortunately we have a team of players that are a million miles away from being comfortable on the ball. Fuck me they struggle to find their man with a simple pass sometimes !!!!

[Reformation Bear 2,166]

He's tried and tried and tried again. And tried still more. And is still trying.

Lying 3rd in the league so still in contention for the only 'must achieve' goal this season of winning a european slot for next season.

The business end of the season starts to come into view. But some very difficult games to come in Nov and Dec where a firmly established track record exists of dropping points in winnable games. Going with this is still a knack of conceding too easily and - more worryingly - being unable to score anywhere near often enough.

Seems to me that time and games have been expended in trying to get the team to play the way he thinks the game should be played. IMO that the time for learning and adapting has come to an end. The remaining games in Nov and those in Dec become defining games for Warburton's approach. More of the same and there may be a risk that after the winter break we find ourselves off the pace for a european slot.......which then pushes the season closer towards being a failure. Not good. Games in Nov and Dec are games where not only the players but Warburton himself must bring about a big improvement. If not then all that trying for the 'philosophy' would risk becoming an failed project - and an expensive one at that.

[He's blue he's white 452]

His philosophy is not to blame as I can honestly see what he is trying to achieve, something is going wrong at the moment and his refusal to accept that and make tweaks to that is what is doing my head in.

I can't really blame him for the team selection (in general).

Stevie Wonder can see we need changing.

[Boybluesy 109]

1 hour ago, He's blue he's white said:

His philosophy is not to blame as I can honestly see what he is trying to achieve, something is going wrong at the moment and his refusal to accept that and make tweaks to that is what is doing my head in.

I can't really blame him for the team selection (in general).

Stevie Wonder can see we need changing.

Well he is misstra know it all...

[ritchieshearercaldow 2,944]

Slightly Off Topic but do the likes of BMG have a bigger budget than us ? are they a bigger club than us?

They've shown they can match the scum and beat them.

[THE_MIGHTY_BEARS 3,766]

2 hours ago, Thermopylae said:

Walter must be pulling his hair out at what a low priority getting the defence right seems to have these days ... surely that's the bedrock that all successful teams are built on

Getting a quality CB isn't easy. I think Walter signed Webster who was a very expensive failure. He also tried to sign Loovens who was a disaster of a player. Walter was lucky in that he had millions to keep throwing at that position until he got ones who were good enough. Even so, we got extremely lucky with Cuellar and Bougherra.

[Rfc52 18,479]

4 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

Getting a quality CB isn't easy. I think Walter signed Webster who was a very expensive failure. He also tried to sign Loovens who was a disaster of a player. Walter was lucky in that he had millions to keep throwing at that position until he got ones who were good enough. Even so, we got extremely lucky with Cuellar and Bougherra.

Very expensive we paid about 200k ffs

[THE_MIGHTY_BEARS 3,766]

2 hours ago, Max1872 said:

Nonsense. Our poor performances have nothing to do with them.

We're talking about the philosophy. My point related to our current philosophy and our ability to win the league which is the end game.

[graeme_4 1,400]

5 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

Getting a quality CB isn't easy. I think Walter signed Webster who was a very expensive failure. He also tried to sign Loovens who was a disaster of a player. Walter was lucky in that he had millions to keep throwing at that position until he got ones who were good enough. Even so, we got extremely lucky with Cuellar and Bougherra.

You can't say he wasted millions on one, and got lucky with others.

He signed both Cuellar and Bougherra who were both excellent players, he gets credit for that.

Whats astonishing is that people seem to forget the amount of cash he pished up against the wall on absolute garbage. A much morse 'ratio' of success to failure in terms of signings (objectively speaking) IMO.

[THE_MIGHTY_BEARS 3,766]

3 minutes ago, Rfc52 said:

Very expensive we paid about 200k ffs

He was on a big wage for about 5 years and hardly kicked a ball for us. It was millions for doing fuck all.

[K.A.I 8,469]

1 minute ago, graeme_4 said:

You can't say he wasted millions on one, and got lucky with others.

He signed both Cuellar and Bougherra who were both excellent players, he gets credit for that.

Whats astonishing is that people seem to forget the amount of cash he pished up against the wall on absolute garbage. A much morse 'ratio' of success to failure in terms of signings (objectively speaking) IMO.

Aye. I mind him signing defenders like Petric, Bjorklund, Davie McPherson, Gary Bollan, Kirk Broadfoot, Foster ... they weren't all great defenders

[Rfc52 18,479]

Just now, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

He was on a big wage for a bout 5 years and hardly kicked a ball for us. It was millions for doing fuck all.

You know his wage aye?

He was a workshy shite bag. I recall a game v killie. he was to start, then was a late call off after the warm up. radio presenter asked Walter why he had to pull out and Walter said "you better ask him about that" Andy webster was a mentally weak prick. an absolute shite bag of a man who couldn't handle playing for us.

Daniel prodan was an expansive failure....

[loyalfollower 559]

2 hours ago, Max1872 said:

'instant success' he's been in the job 18 months that's more than enough time to implement his style on the team. We're actually a worse team than we were a year ago.

We look worse because we played against pisher teams last year. Any manager can only have instant success with a certain style if the players are ready for it and know the style. It'd be like Arsenal signing James vardy and trying to get him to pass n move.

back to last year we still made loads of mistakes and had quite a shite shots to goals ratio given how much possession we had and chances created but we got away with it simply because of the opposition outside hibs and Falkirk anyway. He is still trying to get players to adapt to a wholly different scenario i.e. Pressure, having more of the ball. Just 2 things that are non existent from all of our signings previous clubs.

Give it abit longer I say

[graeme_4 1,400]

3 minutes ago, Rfc52 said:

Very expensive we paid about 200k ffs

That would make him the 3rd most expensive signing in our squad (if he was added now), behind Garner and O'Halloran.

Not to mention the wages.

Warburton's made mistakes (in Barton and Senderos), but given our budget I'd say most of the rest have been Ok for a 2nd place SPFL team.

[graeme_4 1,400]

2 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Aye. I mind him signing defenders like Petric, Bjorklund, Davie McPherson, Gary Bollan, Kirk Broadfoot, Foster ... they weren't all great defenders

I loved big Jocky Bjorklund, but the rest aye. Add Christian Dailly in there too.

[Rfc52 18,479]

Just now, graeme_4 said:

That would make him the 3rd most expensive signing in our squad (if he was added now), behind Garner and O'Halloran.

Not to mention the wages.

Warburton's made mistakes (in Barton and Senderos), but given our budget I'd say most of the rest have been Ok for a 2nd place SPFL team.

If it was 200k then no it wouldn't Rossiter, Dodoo, Kiernan and tav/Waghorn cost more

[loyalfollower 559]

14 minutes ago, ritchieshearercaldow said:

Slightly Off Topic but do the likes of BMG have a bigger budget than us ? are they a bigger club than us?

They've shown they can match the scum and beat them.

No I don't think they are a bigger club but they play at a far higher level than us and the tims add to that most German clubs are extremely well run.

Id say they definetly have a far bigger budget than us

[graeme_4 1,400]

2 minutes ago, Rfc52 said:

If it was 200k then no it wouldn't Rossiter, Dodoo, Kiernan and tav/Waghorn cost more

Thought they were all around the £200k mark? No?

And I'm sure Wag / Tav was a combined £200k (ish).

[Rfc52 18,479]

Just now, loyalfollower said:

No I don't think they are a bigger club but they play at a far higher level than us and the tims add to that most German clubs are extremely well run.

Id say they definetly have a far bigger budget than us

Pretty much spot on

[Rfc52 18,479]

Just now, graeme_4 said:

Thought they were all around the £200k mark? No?

And I'm sure Wag / Tav was a combined £200k (ish).

Think they were a combined 400k just don't know who cost more